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 Post subject: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:23 pm 
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I've been thinking off and on for the past five months or so about how limited many fantasy authors keep their races. There are Elves, Humans, Dwarves. They each live in their own little region (humans the wide world, dwarves mountains, and elves the forests) and have their own culture and marry their own kind. Occasionally you may see a half-elf half-human hybrid, but that's it, and only when a "normal" character with "special talents" is needed. The same issues apply to more creative authors whose races are the Kalians, the Tuaseans, and the Maelkenoi. They still live in their own regions and interact with only each other as completely homogeneous groups. In reality these are all more like separate sentient species than they are races. Disagree? Let's look at races in our world.

The main issue with defining race is that it's not exactly a scientific term. Scientists group things all the way down to species, and even to subspecies, but that's as far as they go. So they're no help in this discussion, but linguistics may help us a little. The word race is used in two major ways in the English language. First of all, we're all part of the "human race". This grouping is what scientists designate as the species homo sapien. Now, I'm not trying to push evolutionist ideas that we're all nothing but intelligent animals, but I do think it fairly accurate to say that mankind is physiologically different from other creatures on earth. In short, we're are our own species.

The second use of "race" is the one most people commonly think of when they hear such words as racism, racial profiling, etc. Most immediately associate this with skin color, but it truly goes a little beyond that. For instance, Hispanics are very similar in skin color to Middle Easterners. And people in India have similar pigmentation to that of those in the Pacific isles, but rarely are these races confused. For instance, Oriental heritage is usually associated with not just skin color, but also with facial structure and height. The Aborigines of Australia have black skin, but they're not confused with those of African descent. So race in the common use refers to noticeable physical differences, including skin color. I'm assuming that it is from this use that fantasy "races" are dubbed such since they generally look similar except for certain physical differences. But what I'd like to point out is that all of the races on Earth are still members of the human race. I guess another word that would work well for this meaning would be "breeds" like is used when discussing different types of horses, dogs, etc.

But as I'm sure we've all noticed, skin color and other features do not come close to making people the same. African Americans are far different from people in Africa of the same race. Why is this? One word: culture. Some would throw in nationality, but generally the two are very closely related, except for those nations which house separate cultural groups. So even members of the same race are not all the same. And then you get into how members of the same culture differ from one another...

So that's races in our world. So are fantasy races, which usually have their own origins and homogeneous cultures, really races at all? My thoughts (which are by no means authoritative). Mimic the human race and have races within your races. Have dark-skinned elves that live in hot climates, and brown-skinned elves that live in equatorial climates. And let the variety of their habitats carry over into their cultures. If group X of elves lives in the arctic and group Y of elves live in the temperate forests further south, they shouldn't have identical cultures.

I use this idea on my merfolk races in my world of Fantasia (which I desperately want to rename). They are all essentially one race, the merfolk race, but there are several different races of merfolk, there are the Formors which live in the dark depths of the ocean and the Merrows which live in the kelp forests closer to the surface and a race of merfolk that inhabit the colder waters of the arctic regions. They're all merfolk and all share common lineage, but each is its own race. I haven't quite finished working all of this out, I may come up with some more before it's all said and done. And those are just the sea-dwelling races in Fantasia, not to mention the freshwater races and the land dwellers :).

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:33 am 
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These are good ideas. I've used similar ideas in the past, but have never thought it over to the extent that you obviously have. I was just doing it for variety, while you've given logical reasons for regional differences among elves and other races.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:12 pm 
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I agree with Jonathan. These are excellent points, Jordan, and very interesting food-for-thought. Admittedly, I'd never thought about it that way - I imagine most others haven't, either! I am debating the existence of fantasy "races" (like dwarves and such) in my NaNo novel; after November, I may need to take it a step further. Thanks for the great post!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:10 pm 
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This made me think over my "races" again. Somehow I had managed to avoid all of this except the intermarriage thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Griffin wrote:
This made me think over my "races" again. Somehow I had managed to avoid all of this except the intermarriage thing.
Could you clarify the "this" that you've avoided?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:37 am 
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Just all of the things that could be improved on races. It's true that I've called them races, when really they are different species, but I've avoided the culture differences and coloring, etc.

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"Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment, for even the Wise cannot see all ends."
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"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (in Sherlock Holmes)
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Prodigal Son: Developing Stage
Grateful Son: Developing Stage
The Setting Sons: Developing Stage
All titles are tentative
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Tobias the Swift: Developing Stage

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Yeah, most of my books are in the development stage, but I have a lot of ideas! :P


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:41 am 
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Very good food for thought. When I first came up with my world, I thought I was being uncreative, but now that you put it that way, maybe I'm not. My continents are laid out like so:

 4   1
 3   2

Basically, Enderion has three species: humans, dwarves, and Nomahar. The nomahar were given continents 1 and 2 and the humans were given 3 and 4. Dwarves were given a part of 3. The main bulk of the dwarves live on 3, where they are a loose union of about forty different races. But the Dwarves and humans spread to continents 1 and 2, and mostly destroyed the Nomahar. As for the humans, I could list just the races of 1 (Flerré) for example: Vehonans resemble American Indians, but in the west their culture is different, resembling more a plains Indian; while in the east their culture resembles something closer to the Iroquois or something similar; more forest-savvy and so on. The Sannahet are an island nation yet they are sharply divided between eastern and western cultures. The northern half of Tarbiyaan has a very distinct culture from South Tarbiyaan, and Culvinis is divided into many different sub-cultures. And don't forget Cielan, which is one of the few remaining places with Nomahar, which influence that culture as well.

Anyways, I have races, not species. But apparently that's a good thing, though. =) And I'll shut up now. =D

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:05 pm 
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eruheran wrote:
Anyways, I have races, not species. But apparently that's a good thing, though. =)
In my opinion it is. But you have to remember, I'm not like most fantasy people.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:05 am 
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I have four distinct cultures/races of men in the Red World, perhaps five:
The men of the North generally do not speak the High Red World tongue and tend toward the Green World pronunciations if they do.
The Hunters in the East have a culture all their own that centers on the dragons they hunt/used to hunt, and the spirits they fought in the past, and a small emphasis on overseas trade.
The men of the Triopolis live in the desert, function as a republic or democracy (still working out the details)
And the greatest of them all, the men of the South, were a feudal monarchy. Aside from that is the possible fifth culture of the Schools of Magic, which take men from everywhere and turn them toward witchcraft, which is a culture of its own.
Since they all have common origins their languages are very similar and one can see that there was a common religion/metaphysics way back. They all know of the Dark One and think of him as the same person.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Whoa. It's funny, none of this ever occurred to me until I read this. Very informative and helpful. ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:18 am 
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You always have such in depth things to say, Seer. You have no idea how difficult this makes life for those of us who aren't so motivated...
I'm kidding. It's a wonderful gift (for you and the rest of us).

I know enough about the history of my world to know that the elves, at least, are one homogenous group. This is because they cut themselves out of the human community entirely, when they weren't so numerous. They live on a mountainous continent near the middle of the world, and have almost no contact with the rest of the world.
The humans are split up on many different continents, with different cultures and even different levels of technology and learning.
My 'halfelven' (I'm having such trouble with a real name for them) live on any continent that has humans. The only continent without halfelven is the one with the elves... they don't get along so well. The halfelven will also vary in culture, but they share many features because they are all so deeply rooted in their religion.

So interesting... *goes off to consider differences in sects of elves*

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Aldara Mimetes wrote:
You always have such in depth things to say, Seer. You have no idea how difficult this makes life for those of us who aren't so motivated...
I'm kidding. It's a wonderful gift (for you and the rest of us).

Trust me it's a gift and a curse, and feels like a curse far more often than it feels like a gift. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm 
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It's cool that you mentioned this. It's something I wanted to do from the start in Ska'Lah'Seh. I started by separating humans into Northern Imperials (south western European), Southern Imperials (Middle Eastern), Alliancers (Northeastern European), Nomads (African), and Farlanders (Chinese). I separated the Mon'An (Elf/Nephilim) into Tar'An (Irish/Sylvan Elves), Di'Fir'An (Post-Apocalyptic survivor/Dark elf/Maybe a little middle eastern), Sol'An (Japanese/High Elf). The Wol'v'an(wolf people) I separated into Pack(Native American), Street Dogs (Americanized Native Americans), and Sea Dogs(Hawaiian). I haven't finished yet as I am still working on the Kah'T'An (cat people). I'm thinking a group that is more Chinese and one that is more Indian?
There is also the Rah'T'An (mouse people) I'm thinking Russian or French? So I thought this was awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:28 pm 
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This is cool! It means I did something right in my race-creating!! *does happy dance*
Mimetes the Seer, you are awesome. Your worldbuilding posts make me want to rewrite my world's history. :dieshappy:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:23 am 
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I only have humans. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:54 am 
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DawnBringer wrote:
It's cool that you mentioned this. It's something I wanted to do from the start in Ska'Lah'Seh. I started by separating humans into Northern Imperials (south western European), Southern Imperials (Middle Eastern), Alliancers (Northeastern European), Nomads (African), and Farlanders (Chinese). I separated the Mon'An (Elf/Nephilim) into Tar'An (Irish/Sylvan Elves), Di'Fir'An (Post-Apocalyptic survivor/Dark elf/Maybe a little middle eastern), Sol'An (Japanese/High Elf). The Wol'v'an(wolf people) I separated into Pack(Native American), Street Dogs (Americanized Native Americans), and Sea Dogs(Hawaiian). I haven't finished yet as I am still working on the Kah'T'An (cat people). I'm thinking a group that is more Chinese and one that is more Indian?
There is also the Rah'T'An (mouse people) I'm thinking Russian or French? So I thought this was awesome.
That's really cool, DawnBringer! I like what you've done with your races!
Lady Abigail Mimetes wrote:
This is cool! It means I did something right in my race-creating!! *does happy dance*
Mimetes the Seer, you are awesome. Your worldbuilding posts make me want to rewrite my world's history. :dieshappy:
Thanks, Lady Abigail! I'm glad you like it! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:20 am 
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I have a lot of races...

Most of them are still rather separate because of environmental differences. Aquatics, those capable of flight, et cetera. Their differences are more distinct than physical fitness and temperament, so they naturally lend themselves to different environments.

Some mix, but their history is yet young, and wars and religion have drawn them apart. Not to mention those pesky newcomers from the other world... I don't think any one race actually knows that all of the others exist, being such a vast world.

It is a process though, so they start to mingle more later on.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:42 am 
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Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
I have a lot of races...

Most of them are still rather separate because of environmental differences. Aquatics, those capable of flight, et cetera. Their differences are more distinct than physical fitness and temperament, so they naturally lend themselves to different environments.

Some mix, but their history is yet young, and wars and religion have drawn them apart. Not to mention those pesky newcomers from the other world... I don't think any one race actually knows that all of the others exist, being such a vast world.

It is a process though, so they start to mingle more later on.
Interesting....I am intrigued! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Run with Races!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:19 am 
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The races that have seen the most of each other are probably the Nohokai and the Mergim. Their wars have been long, bloody, and brutal.

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Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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