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 Post subject: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:13 pm 
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This is a piece of world-building from a story I am writing.

Everyone thinks werewolves are men who transform into bloodthirsty beasts, but that isn't quite the case.

Imagine, for a moment, what it is to be the wolf. I do not know whether or not he retains his memories of being human, nor can I say whether that would make him more or less calm. The fact is he, a fully developed, adult wolf, has just come into being from Heaven knows where. He cannot see and understand things as a human does because his senses are operating in a way he has never understood them. He hears sounds and smells scents, but he has no frame of reference to know what they mean. No parent wolf ever taught him as a pup, and you know from documentaries what that does to a dog, even if the dog had time to grow up and learn things. This wolf did not have that.

Also take into account animal behavior. Every animal needs a territory to call their own. It doesn't really matter what it is, as long as they can find shelter and escape from stress. When animals are out of their territory, their fight instinct takes over, because they cannot find a safe place to which they may retreat. This wolf does not have a territory. Worse yet, he has no understanding of his senses to say what he can trust, and what will attempt to attack him. He may not even be aware that certain things are living or non-living. He lives in a complete unknown, is utterly terrified, and sees everything that moves as a potential threat.

The trouble in this, is that mankind does not often understand the animal mind. When an individual sees a loved one's transformation into a wolf, it is only natural to either shrink away, or attempt to approach and comfort. Neither of these have yielded comforting results.

The question of it is whether or not the wolf form retains memories of its previous manifestations. If this is true, and at present, I do not see why it should not be so, then the wolf may be taught certain behaviors so that those around him are in less danger of upsetting him. However, if the wolf mind is renewed at each turn of the moon, there is little that can be done for my patients.

Further study is required.

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:19 pm 
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:shock: :0 :book: duuuude. You put a lot of thought into this...I never actually thought of it this way. Fascinating!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Okay, that is absolutely brilliant. I never thought of it in quite that manner before. :D So then, are you saying that the human-turned-wolf stays a wolf? I didn't quite catch that, but it sounded a bit as though they do.

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:00 am 
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No, they turn back. That's where the speculation comes in as to whether or not the wolf mind can learn things, or if it is a newborn mind each time.

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All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Ah, okay. So does the human remember being a wolf? Or is the human completely oblivious to the fact that it was a wolf? (That would be kind of funny, actually. To revert back to human form and your family is acting all weird because you were a wolf, but you don't know that you were one, and so you think everything is normal and they're just being weird.)

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:58 pm 
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I haven't decided yet. The man who wrote the journal entry will have to find out. :D

Well, even if you don't remember, you would still wake up in abnormal places and perhaps with people staring at you in horror, so you would know that you did something...

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Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:22 pm 
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Yes, and that would make for some amazing awkwardness and shadow-looming-over-your-head type stuff. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Yep. :D That's why there's an asylum for werewolves now. ^_^

_________________
You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:46 pm 
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*Sniff* I smell a story. Who's publishing this thing, and where can I get it?

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:55 pm 
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I hope to do... One day. *points to sig* It has no pinterest board yet though. I'll make one once I find a better name.

_________________
You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:30 pm 
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I had imagined something similar to this, the idea that werewolves are actually stripped down to their most basic survival instincts when they turn; losing much of what makes them human as those memories and traits retreat into the deepest parts of their subconscious. Pardon me, but I'd like to give my feedback in the form of another scientist's opinion. It's too fun to pass up.

I don't think you could conventionally train your patient, as I would assume a fully grown wolf would be difficult to train, and--as you said--there is a possibility the beast is reborn each night. It is unlikely that the subject's brain is keeping track of two sets of memories, though it is possible. Lycanthropy might behave similarly to dissociative identity disorder; however, with only two identities this is unlikely. It is more likely when the subjects take on their more primal vessel their human memories are present but overshadowed by their instincts. One could argue in their path from man to beast they lose the most important aspect of what makes us human, and--pardon me for this brief detour into personal philosophy--our free will; our ability to rise above our baser instincts. The only hope one might have in aiding one's "Patient" is to somehow enable them to override that primal savagery, teach them to grapple with and subdue the beast as man has done from the moment he first stepped onto the cold earth those many eons ago.

Sincerely,
Father Eric Georgeson

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:27 pm 
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For the purposes of my story, I don't think anyone else would know much about the study of lycanthropy, but it would be really neat to approach things from a scientific community style. :D Neat.

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Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
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Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:45 am 
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I just couldn't resist is all. You get the jist of what I was saying, right?

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In times of hardship. A rational faith shall outlast a blind adherence.


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Oh, I think it's great. :D I was just speaking my world building thoughts as they came to me because the story I have in mind is cloaked in secrecy, but it is always fascinating to consider what it would be like if such studies were open for peer review. We only really see the scientific community involved in stories when they are considering someone to be a crackpot.

As for the content itself, I'm not certain I fully understand. If the subject's brain is one and the same, why would the memory be defined as two sets? How can a being "subdue the beast" if, as you say, the will is removed?

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Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
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http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:32 am 
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A persons psych can fragment as is the case the dissociative personality disorder but this is extremely rare. The will isn't exactly removed so much as it is subdued by a stronger force, in this case Instinct, you'll have to excuse the flowery words I was using. The idea is that someone who is trained to be more disciplined who knows how to calm their emotions and subdue their baser instincts would possibly be able to control themselves at least to some degree. That is if their psych isn't fragmented between man and beast, as in two different personalities contained within the same mind. However, even then such training might help. However if you are going with a fragmented psych there is still the question you initially brought up is it a new personality every-time a new wolf? Or the same wolf? Honestly whatever you decide it could be fascinating so long as you think it through. Personally I like the idea of the subdued personality overshadowed by baser instinct. It's especially more pungent if you're going for horror or action adventure. Having the instinct be insurmountable creates a horrifying idea of how the person doesn't just have a monster inside of them but that they really are the monster. Or in the case of being able to take control it turns a curse into a superpower for high-flying adventure.

However, what could be more fascinating or interesting is having it differ on a case by case basis. With it being different for each person due to their own nature, or even based on the bloodline or strain of lycanthrope. perhaps both.

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:51 am 
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My point more so was that, even if the mind is the same, the senses and understanding of a wolf are a huge contrast to a human understanding. It was more the point of nurture versus nature and animal psychology. I think it is very often a symbol of will, vice, and virtue to control and understand the condition, so I want to take a less idealistic and more scientific approach.

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You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:30 pm 
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The problem is that everything I've brought up is based in psychological theory. In short its all scientific. Science doesn't always give clear answers especially in the field of psychology the one we are dealing with at the moment, a lot of psychology is based in idealism, as it is the study of the mind, you cant really strip this field down to chemical formulas and numbers, they are a part of the field no doubt, but only one part of a greater whole, most psychologists I know, and I know a great deal, agree that it is a combination of nature and nurture or more a synergy between the two that help to determine the self.

One could say psychology exists in a realm all its own caught between the realms of Biology and Philosophy.

That being said the way you're describing it, contrasting the nature of a wolf with that of a man, would work better with a fragmented psych, with a human personality and a wolf personality. I suggest you study dissociative identity disorder and the actual psychological condition lycanthropy. As far as memory goes the two may or may not have memories of what the other has done, but should usually retain memories of their own. The trick is it seems at least from my understanding that people with multiple personalities tend to begin to display more overtime and that can quickly stimey the werewolf aspect of the story pretty quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: An Analysis of Werewolves
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:03 am 
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This story isn't up to date scientifically, it takes place somewhere around a century ago, I believe. I meant I haven't decided for story sake which way the psychology of the matter will go. Lycanthropy still has supernatural causes as far as the tale is concerned, but the science is more raw field research than it is rehabilitative therapy. It is a complex mix, but I rather like the essence of it.

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You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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