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 Post subject: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:06 am 
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In the long history of Holy Worlds, many terms have been created, many concepts have been imagined, and many dreams have been dreamed. Many users have struggled to solve the biggest mysteries (almost all of which can be traced back to the Lausers ;) ) one of those is Cobha.

Cobha (Co-va) - Created by Patrick Lauser original thread found here: viewtopic.php?f=244&t=217

So a while ago, I decided to try describing Cobha in one, simple, sentence. Whether I succeeded or failed, who knows but I figured it was worth a shot. ;)

Cobha: Any normal event in your world, that would be supernatural, unseen, or impossible in our world.

How would you define Cobha in one sentence? What are some ways you've used Cobha in your world?

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:34 pm 
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I tend to define it as "anything natural and normal in a story-world that would be supernatural or impossible in our world," since my worldbuilding rarely deals with cobhaic events, but rather focuses on differing properties.

Sir Iarrthoir Criost wrote:
Cobha (Co-va)
If that's how the coiner of the word pronounces it, which is admittedly likely, this is yet another on the list of words I met first and primarily in written form and mentally pronounced "wrong." (I pronounce it "cobe-a", with a slight aspiration between the syllables.)

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:17 am 
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I actually agree with you there, good catch. I'm mentally updating my one-liner. ;)

As far as pronounciation goes, that's definitely how it appears but let me quote the original post.

Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes wrote:
Touching cobha, it is a word that I made up, and I place in in Alain, and in the Alauyt language. It is pronounced cone, lava.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Sir Iarrthoir Criost wrote:
let me quote the original post

Like most coined words that I commonly use, it's one I first met at a (fairly) far remove from the original source, if I've even read the original source :).

On the other hand, given what English does to the pronunciation of words it borrows, if so mild a term can be accurate, from non-invented languages, if the term ever caught on in the world at large I suspect dictionaries would list at least one, if not three or more, pronunciations beyond the original. :)

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My blog includes the following "departments":
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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:57 pm 
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A member of another of HW's infamous families (this time a Hanley) made a very solid argument for why he doesn't use cobha - metaphysics works just as well without needing an invented word. I tend to lean more that way myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:58 am 
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Varon wrote:
metaphysics works just as well without needing an invented word.

Mmm. Perhaps it's merely that I picked up the sense of the word more from context than from a pronouncement of its coinage, but to me "cobha" includes (and in fact is primarily) things that would qualify as "physics" in our world if they existed. I use the term "metaphysics" for various philosophical ideas, most having to do with theological anthropology, when they (rarely) come up, and I make heavy use of the term "applied metaphysics" to mean the category that includes "magic," every synonym one can think of, and the one form that my fantasy posits is not forbidden. "Cobha," as I understand it, includes such topics as "how do dragons fly?" (when that goes beyond answers that presume our physics, like "hollow bones") and mithril (as expounded by Gandalf in Fellowship of the Ring), neither of which I would file as "metaphysics."

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Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published illustrated collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle.

My blog includes the following "departments":
  • Background on the Shine Cycle, my planned fantasy series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).
  • Strategic Primer, a strategy game I'm developing, played by email, assisted by programs I'm developing. The current campaign (moving slowly, less than one turn a month) always needs more players.
  • My poetry.
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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:33 am 
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So that's what that word means. It's one of my favourite kinds of 'magic' in stories.
Personally I think that a term that was rooted in our language would be much easier for people to get their head around. However I can't think of anything that still doesn't need an explanation of sorts.

Definition of metaphysics from dictionary.com:

1. the branch of philosophy that treats of first principles, includes ontology and cosmology, and is intimately connected with epistemology.

2. philosophy, especially in its more abstruse branches.

3. the underlying theoretical principles of a subject or field of inquiry.

So I don't think it's the right term either.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:00 am 
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I think something we're getting a little too hung up on is the idea that cobha is the only word that exists to describe such things.

Keep in mind that "cobha" is more or less not an invented word, but a word of a different language (granted it has kind of been adopted as a word amongst HW). A word that very similarly may translate to "supernatural" in English.

Definition found for the word supernatural: (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Whether one uses the term cobha or describes it differently, well, I'd say that's up to them. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:09 am 
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True.
Anyway that stuff is cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:00 am 
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Sir Iarrthoir Criost wrote:
I think something we're getting a little too hung up on is the idea that cobha is the only word that exists to describe such things.

Mmm. It's the word that, in this community at least, has "stuck." And every existing English word I've seen someone suggest as an alternative carries the core idea I tried to drive at in my definition above very poorly if at all.

Sir Iarrthoir Criost wrote:
Keep in mind that "cobha" is more or less not an invented word, but a word of a different language (granted it has kind of been adopted as a word amongst HW). A word that very similarly may translate to "supernatural" in English.

One of the things that English does is to take words from several different languages that all have the same broad meaning and assign distinct and different specific and even technical shades of meaning to each of them. The example that leaps most readily to my mind is that in its original language "beef" is simply the word for "cow" (except that English has also changed the spelling in the intervening centuries), but we say that "cow" is only the animal, and "beef" is only the meat of the animal.

Sir Iarrthoir Criost wrote:
Definition found for the word supernatural: (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

And that definition is why "supernatural" simply will not do for the core meaning of "cobha": if something would be supernatural in our world, but is "normal" in the story-world in the way that (say) gravity is for us, I, at least, need a way to explain that.

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Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published illustrated collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle.

My blog includes the following "departments":
  • Background on the Shine Cycle, my planned fantasy series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).
  • Strategic Primer, a strategy game I'm developing, played by email, assisted by programs I'm developing. The current campaign (moving slowly, less than one turn a month) always needs more players.
  • My poetry.
  • Miscellaneous essays.


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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:08 pm 
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You bring up some good points and I'm going to start with saying, perspective is everything. :)

Let's set the scene. We have two worlds, world_A and world_B. In world_B people can fly, in world_A they cannot.

Now, let's rephrase my definition in the first post.

Any normal event in world_B, that would be supernatural, unseen, or impossible in world_A.

So from the perspective of world_B, flying would not be cobha, it'd be normal.

From the perspective of world_A, flying would be cobha or supernatural.

Also, to clarify, I do not believe supernatural is the core meaning of cobha, I believe it is a suitable alternative.

Now, let me wrap this up with saying, I don't mind cobha being used in the English language, I'd encourage it in fact, but I do not believe cobha is the only word up to the task of describing such things.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:42 am 
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I appreciate this post because I, also, just realized I have been pronouncing this word wrong for upwards of five years. :roll:

Meanwhile, it becomes apparent we need a HW "Urban Dictionary." ;)

Sarcasm aside, thanks for posting this. Cobha is one of those quintessential concepts of spec fic that is important to understand when you start writing. It's also important to consider what your world's cobha is, if any, before beginning. So, thanks for reviving this and summarizing it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:15 am 
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Very true. Cobha is pretty essential to a lot of genres these days.

That's an excellent suggestion by the way, I'd love to throw my one-liner for essence mapping up somewhere. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Cobha in one sentence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:00 am 
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I made a thread in General Discussion for the purpose. :D Carry on!

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