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 Post subject: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:31 am 
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I am indeed slowly working on a complete overhaul from the bare bones and up for Ainaan. It used to have zero magic or cobha, as in my jaded youthful arrogance, I found it cliche and overdone, even cheating, as I called it in one thread I posted here.

But I grew older and learned that magic or cobha were only as cliche as the author made it and that it added a beautiful element to fantasy novels.

So, in this overhaul, I am adding a cobha or magic system. Granted, system is a loose term for it, and loose is what I'm aiming for. The trend currently seems to be for highly organized and predictable magic systems. Less on the magic, and more on the science. That's cool, but it adds a different feel, almost like a science-fiction novel rather than fantasy.

It's based around music. Since in the beginning, Lyrianur used music to form the multiverse, those melodies are still the foundations of existence, and it is possible to tap into the melodies and imitate or channel or add to them to create a desired effect. (not entirely sure for the term yet, or if there will be a term for it). The key is knowing which piece of the music affects what part of the world. It wasn't like anyone could just pick up a tin-whistle and play up a storm. Hey had to be incredibly skilled at music and trained in the Ancient Music. Even then, results were hardly concrete since music is subjective. There's always a little bit of translation loss when songs are played by different people, and something else appears.

This makes it a wild, fairly unpredictable power, not to mention hard to use and dangerous.

I don't know who well known this will be though. Or what it's effects could be. Or anything else, really. Any suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:10 pm 
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This is a very interesting idea. Back in October, I had an idea much like it, but I chose do something else for NaNo.

Varon wrote:
It's based around music. Since in the beginning, Lyrianur used music to form the multiverse, those melodies are still the foundations of existence, and it is possible to tap into the melodies and imitate or channel or add to them to create a desired effect. (not entirely sure for the term yet, or if there will be a term for it). The key is knowing which piece of the music affects what part of the world. It wasn't like anyone could just pick up a tin-whistle and play up a storm. They had to be incredibly skilled at music and trained in the Ancient Music. Even then, results were hardly concrete since music is subjective. There's always a little bit of translation loss when songs are played by different people, and something else appears.

This makes it a wild, fairly unpredictable power, not to mention hard to use and dangerous.

I don't know who well known this will be though. Or what it's effects could be. Or anything else, really. Any suggestions?

So are you talking as in the songs give power or are they more of something that holds the world together? Mixing music, though... It intrigues me. If these songs were involved in the creation of the multiverse, would they have an effect on how it runs when they're mixed? Or are they drawn out of the world and mixed to create objective effects?

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:25 am 
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Yes, there is definitely lots to work with and explore with this system.

As for whether they give power or form the structure of the world, I think the answer is both. A musician who can access that music can access the power that holds the world together. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by mixing them though. As they're all part of one large song, it would be difficult to mix them, especially given their complexity.

Objective effects though? I'm not sure there are any at all, since how one person plays a tune can be completely different than another person's.

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Varon wrote:
Granted, system is a loose term for it, and loose is what I'm aiming for. The trend currently seems to be for highly organized and predictable magic systems. Less on the magic, and more on the science. That's cool, but it adds a different feel, almost like a science-fiction novel rather than fantasy.
I have noticed that as well, and I like that you're trying for something a bit different. I think people sometimes have rules because it's convenient, in a way.. it's easier to make a story be realistic. But doing more work to make sure the world is realistic despite the magicky magic is something I am glad you're going for. I like the stories with magic that's magicky. :P

Though, the style many magic systems are these days, they would not be very nice without the strictness and the rules I don't think. They just wouldn't work well. Yours might be more likely to work well if take some inspiration from older works that use less strict systems. (This is my opinion about modern magicky stuff, anyway. :P It could be just my own taste.)

So, is music always connected to magic? Do people ever just make music for the sake of music? If a hermit child started singing just because he wanted to, could that cause problems by making a lot of magic he didn't intend?


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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:02 am 
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I think the trend has to do with the how the common advice has been to always make specific, clear-cut limits and rules for magic to follow. Then everybody took the advice, took it too well, and we're in the current state of affairs. You are correct. They would not work really will without the rule systems that have been devised. Rothfuss' sympathy system and Sanderson's allomancy come to mind as the best I've seen.

But yes, I am indeed going back in the opposite direction away from that.

But no, music is not always connected to magic. To change the shape of the world, the musician has to know the portio of the song that forms that thing. simple folk song is just a song. People will play music for music's sake. A few will seek to learn the songs to shape the world. So there are two categories of music, magic music and normal music, if that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:21 am 
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Very intriguing. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Thank you! What part do you find most intriguing?

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"Haven't I fallen enough?" She asked, head drooping to rest on the copper-black armor that once gleamed with starlight' white fire. "Must I betray my oath one more time to save these people I have betrayed and oppressed?"


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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:48 pm 
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I find the idea of tapping into the music that holds the universe together very cool. It rings of Tolkien, Paolini (to a lesser degree), and is all-around very cool. Actually, ya know, I wish I hadn't put Tolkien and Paolini in the same sentence. Egh. Now I've done it twice. ;)

Anywaaaaay.... I like the relative unpredictability of your system. It preserves the magick-ness of magic, which is precisely what makes it so powerful.

I like ordered systems, but as soon as it gets too ordered, it ceases to be magical and becomes scientific.

Magic should be something that we do not understand, maybe even cannot ever fully understand, even within-world.

Areth,

Karthmin

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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:12 pm 
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I can definitely see how it echoes of Tolkien, as music played a huge role in the Silmarillion and the creation of Middle-Earth. I don't know about Paolini though, since I only read the first book. (And using them in the same sentence twice! :0 The horror! ;) )

I'm glad you like the unpredictability. I wasn't entirely sure how well that would be received, as it's rather out of fashion right now. Science is all the rage. I agree with the idea that magic shouldn't be fully understood, at least to an extent, and in some cases. There are times when an understood system makes lots of sense and is really enjoyable.

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"Haven't I fallen enough?" She asked, head drooping to rest on the copper-black armor that once gleamed with starlight' white fire. "Must I betray my oath one more time to save these people I have betrayed and oppressed?"


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 Post subject: Re: Hear the Harpers Sing (Ainaan 2.0? 3.0?)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:55 pm 
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I've been doing some more thinking on this and guess what happened? I added in some more science aspects, which wasn't what I was intending.

I added the effects of entropy, specifically. While reality is based around a song that started so long ago and is still continuing, it does decay over time. Notes fade and pass away. Strings break. Voices give out.

The power fades away over time. For most people, it isn't noticeable since it takes places over thousands of years. Nobody lives long enough to realize its vanishing. But for the few very long lived characters such as Ouska, it's a painful reality.

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"Haven't I fallen enough?" She asked, head drooping to rest on the copper-black armor that once gleamed with starlight' white fire. "Must I betray my oath one more time to save these people I have betrayed and oppressed?"


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