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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Yes, it could become fairly standard from person to person like that.

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Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

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The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Right :)

eru

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Bartering and haggling are often connected---since prices fluctuate even in our society with set prices in a single currency, finding a mutually reasonable and agreeable price would, I think, often involve much spirited discussion :)---but neither is essential to the other.

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published illustrated collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle.

My blog includes the following "departments":
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  • Strategic Primer, a strategy game I'm developing, played by email, assisted by programs I'm developing. The current campaign (moving slowly, less than one turn a month) always needs more players.
  • My poetry.
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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:44 am 
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(Resurrecting a few-months-old topic rather than starting a new one for "money in my world".)

(And, before I get into the bulk of this post, one aside: Has anyone else read the fascinating discussion of the morality of coinage and economic exchange in C. S. Lewis' commentary in the Arthurian Torso on Charles Williams' poem "Bors to Elaine: on the King's Coins"?)

Here's my answer to the question that started this thread. The tyrannical, totalitarian Dragon Empire probably uses a single paper currency, backed by nothing except the will of its ruler. But in "the free world" there isn't any one currency or medium of exchange. Since in a free society currency (encompassing coins, paper notes, and other such media) is merely a medium of exchange, of little intrinsic value but given its value by the mutual trust of those who give and accept it, the governments of the free world place few restrictions on this area of commerce. Any bank, banker, or private person, in addition to any political jurisdiction’s treasury, can (with the proper equipment and materials) coin its own money or print its own currency.

What this system does create is a patchwork of competing currencies, all fluctuating in relative value. The Imperial Treasury’s bonds tend to be the reserve currency of the free world, since the Empire has few expenses and (especially with its inability to privatize new enterprises fast enough in the aftermath of the arrival of the Chosen from roughly present-day Earth) unreasonably large income despite few taxes. On the other hand, there’s very little call for a “reserve currency”, since most people and institutions prefer to have their wealth either invested in some business (their own, or someone’s they know well, typically) or kept securely in some more intrinsically-valuable form (or at least a form where the value is less easily depreciable, such as unminted gold).

One effect you might expect is an explosion of counterfeit money. The production and circulation of counterfeit coins or notes is nearly universally forbidden under broader laws against counterfeit goods in general. And counterfeit money---whether false currency, as we deal with today, or impure coins---is not difficult to detect with a combination of mundane techniques (much like those that our world has developed over the past several millennia) and applied metaphysics, and avoiding all or even many of the various custom detection schemes that every bank and most businesses have is effectively impossible. Further, once a counterfeit has been discovered, it is not all that difficult to trace its history back to its creator, who is then usually held liable for the face value of the counterfeits, as well as additional penalties---a substantial deterrent.

One last tangent: Banking in the Empire and its neighbors never developed in the … curious … way it has here. Loans with a set interest rate are rare (other than institutional bonds, which are not all that common); instead, the standard practice is an investment in return for a small share of the profit (for a defined term or otherwise), though for riskier investments the lender/investor might still ask for some sort of collateral until he recouped his investment. A few enterprising members of the Chosen have introduced credit cards, but they haven’t caught on; stores are willing enough to sell on credit to (i.e. settle up accounts monthly with) local customers that this is unnecessary.

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published illustrated collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle.

My blog includes the following "departments":
  • Background on the Shine Cycle, my planned fantasy series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).
  • Strategic Primer, a strategy game I'm developing, played by email, assisted by programs I'm developing. The current campaign (moving slowly, less than one turn a month) always needs more players.
  • My poetry.
  • Miscellaneous essays.


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:53 am 
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Very cool, very thought out, Kingjon.

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Interesting, kingjon.... This is cool development. I love it when people take the time to make it complex. :D

I am confused about one point, however. Is this money that everyone is printing up backed by anything? Or is it simply...well... 'merely a medium of exchange, of little intrinsic value but given its value by the mutual trust of those who give and accept it'? I am not sure if I understood that correctly.

I was wondering, because – * pauses * I think I'll wait til I get your answer to try and work it all out in my head, actually. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:29 pm 
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One most of my races use medium exchange. One uses coinage, and one barters. (Because a currency is not allowed in their religion)

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:36 pm 
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OH!! So here I discuss what systems of currency could be used within the stories that I write! SO COOL!

So here is an exposition that might make enough sense to enhance somebody's ideas, and if not, you at least got another post on money X) :

Money, in it's most basic form, is simply a rare material which is considered valuable and tradable to the common society. We see throughout history that currency can take on many shapes and forms, the likes of which have only a few common attributes, tradability, rarity, and acceptance. Without any one of these three, the currency used would falter and be replaced, so when inventing a system, the best course to take is to consider the materials which posses these three distinctions. Maybe inventing a new material isn't such a bad idea either, and it might not even need to be material, simply ideas, or work.

I don't know if that helped at all, but that's what I think about when trying to design a currency.

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Lady Rwebhu Kidh wrote:
Interesting, kingjon.... This is cool development. I love it when people take the time to make it complex. :D

I am confused about one point, however. Is this money that everyone is printing up backed by anything? Or is it simply...well... 'merely a medium of exchange, of little intrinsic value but given its value by the mutual trust of those who give and accept it'? I am not sure if I understood that correctly.

I was wondering, because – * pauses * I think I'll wait til I get your answer to try and work it all out in my head, actually. :P

Much like in some periods in our own world's history (such as the times in the U.S. when there wasn't a Bank of the United States), there's not much difference between "currency" and "bearer bonds." "Currency" is used because things that have intrinsic value aren't suitable as media of exchange---gold (which isn't really as "intrinsically" valuable as we imagine---it's pretty, and there are some uses in electronics, and so on, but mostly it's valuable because we think it's valuable :)) is heavy; some of the rarer elements are so valuable that a few grains might be worth "a king's ransom"; you wouldn't want to carry sheaves of wheat around while shopping; and so on. So a "5-pound note" issued by J. Q. Engraver is a promise to give 5 pounds of (probably) silver; a seller might accept that at face value if he's well-known for being honest, or even at more than face value if his silver tends to be unusually pure, but might treat it as if it were worth less or refuse to accept it at all if J.Q. Engraver is an unknown person who lives thousands of miles away or if he sometimes has trouble paying his debts.

And note that I said anyone could print money; most people don't bother.

_________________
Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published illustrated collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle.

My blog includes the following "departments":
  • Background on the Shine Cycle, my planned fantasy series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).
  • Strategic Primer, a strategy game I'm developing, played by email, assisted by programs I'm developing. The current campaign (moving slowly, less than one turn a month) always needs more players.
  • My poetry.
  • Miscellaneous essays.


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:43 am 
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kingjon wrote:
Lady Rwebhu Kidh wrote:
Interesting, kingjon.... This is cool development. I love it when people take the time to make it complex. :D

I am confused about one point, however. Is this money that everyone is printing up backed by anything? Or is it simply...well... 'merely a medium of exchange, of little intrinsic value but given its value by the mutual trust of those who give and accept it'? I am not sure if I understood that correctly.

I was wondering, because – * pauses * I think I'll wait til I get your answer to try and work it all out in my head, actually. :P

Much like in some periods in our own world's history (such as the times in the U.S. when there wasn't a Bank of the United States), there's not much difference between "currency" and "bearer bonds." "Currency" is used because things that have intrinsic value aren't suitable as media of exchange---gold (which isn't really as "intrinsically" valuable as we imagine---it's pretty, and there are some uses in electronics, and so on, but mostly it's valuable because we think it's valuable :)) is heavy; some of the rarer elements are so valuable that a few grains might be worth "a king's ransom"; you wouldn't want to carry sheaves of wheat around while shopping; and so on. So a "5-pound note" issued by J. Q. Engraver is a promise to give 5 pounds of (probably) silver; a seller might accept that at face value if he's well-known for being honest, or even at ore than face value if his silver tends to be unusually pure, but might treat it as if it were worth less or refuse to accept it at all if J.Q. Egraver is an unknown person who lives thousands of miles away or if he sometimes has trouble paying his debts.

And note that I said anyone could print money; most people don't bother.
Oh, so your notes are (or ought to be) backed up by something real? * nods * That's what I was trying to clarify. It doesn't really work otherwise. I believe that is where you get inflation... :P


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:50 pm 
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I had a thought about money, based on reading about how to create a language. It seems that if you look at different cultures and their money systems, it might help with preventing systems from becoming too American (or whatever country you live in).

Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Yeah, you can't even get away without research in writing fantasy... :P :D Research would be very helpful in this area. I think money systems are one of those areas where you hardly notice you're copying your own culture.


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Wikipedia is helpful for most cultural data.

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:49 pm 
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That is a fascinating thought. We do tend to mimic our own culture in some of the "simpler" things.

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:31 am 
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Coinage is what I mainly use. Barter is also used, though not often talked about in the books.

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 Post subject: Re: Money
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:09 pm 
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The outer-lying towns and regions use barter because the have absolutely no use for precious stones or metals.

The greater cities use mainly precious stones and metals (with in the form of jewelry or otherwise) and are even moving into the use of coinage more.

Guess who has more problems with dragons? ;)

Since most races don't interact with human civilization very much, they use barter, although the value of trinkets is acknowledged in their trades.

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