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 Post subject: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:01 pm 
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As I've been resurrecting my world-building and trying to sort out the kinks in my development, one problem I've been running into is the tie between my fictitious world (Erde) and our world. Is Erde just a dream, or is there more to it? Where did the original inhabitants of Erde come from? How does the MC of my novel get to Erde--and, more importantly, how does he get back?

Thanks to a suggestion of kingjon's, I have come up with an entirely new--and, I dare say, startling--answer to those questions. Below is a new idea for the origins of Erde. I'm posting it here for general critique, as it's still underdeveloped, before putting it in my subforum.

So, what do y'all think?

***
Long ago, the planet now known as “Erde” was just one sphere in a vast solar system. This fanciful galaxy, which was composed of a myriad of small planets bearing every kind of geography imaginable, existed within reality but outside of time—an ethereal state between heaven and earth. There were no sun or stars in the sky, but darkness never fell; the world was not bound by the laws of day and night. It was, simply put, a dream world—the place where God sent sleeping souls in our world to live out the dreams He had orchestrated for them. For centuries humans traversed the galaxy in their subconscious, never realizing that the place they visited in their dreams was a living, breathing world.

In addition to bearing a fantastical variety of plant and animal life, the galaxy was inhabited by humanoid spirits created to interact with dreamers in their adventure. These spirits, although fully alive in appearance and behavior, were soulless and had no sense of time. They were immortal, but they didn’t realize it. They lived for the present, immersing themselves in each dream and forgetting it as soon as the dreamer left.

The galaxy continued in this endless yet ever-changing rhythm until the day that a coma patient came to sojourn. Locked in his state of unconsciousness for months without any knowledge of his past life, the dreamer staked out a new life on Erde and did the unthinkable—married one of the spirits and bore a child. The child inherited her father’s soul and sense of time, but like her mother, she was an immortal with no place in reality. Her father’s real-world body eventually died, ending the dream and causing her spirit mother to forget her, but the child could not forget. She was cursed with her father’s memory, his language, his traditions and religion—a human permanently confined to a dream.

Lonely, the dream-girl married a spirit and bore other children who also had her soul. Her children married other spirits, producing crossbreeds of giants and dwarves with souls. Soon the souled inhabitants began to multiply and build their own cultures in the galaxy—cultures that did not change with the passage of dreams. More spirits abandoned the pursuit of dreams and joined the humans’ way of life. After some time, the galaxy came to be dominated by a mindset that was fully human—and, consequently, sinful.

Knowing He could not allow the souled humans to live forever, God cursed the dream-world just as He had Earth. In an act similar to the Flood, He forced the migration of all the humans and some spirits to one planet, which later came to be known as Erde. He then brought darkness upon the galaxy, confining it to the rule of night and day, and destroyed the other planets. He cursed all the remaining inhabitants with mortality in the form of “fading.” Even the ground was cursed, leaving the earth to slowly whiten and crumble away…

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:13 pm 
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I love it!!! :dieshappy:

One thing...

Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Knowing He could not allow the souled humans to live forever, God cursed the dream-world just as He had Earth. In an act similar to the Flood, He forced the migration of all the humans and some spirits to one planet, which later came to be known as Erde. He then brought darkness upon the galaxy, confining it to the rule of night and day, and destroyed the other planets. He cursed all the remaining inhabitants with mortality in the form of “fading.” Even the ground was cursed, leaving the earth to slowly whiten and crumble away…


I think that this sounds like He set forth new standards (out of the question, I know), or a new covenant with these sub-dream people, which was broken, bringing on another curse. I think that would work well...the covenant idea. Or you could make this a little different...saying that humans merely broke this world through sin, since the natural consequences of sin is death and brokenness. :)

Looking forward to seeing how this takes shape. ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:59 am 
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*will ponder this* :book:

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:37 am 
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Hrmm... this is a fascinating idea, not entirely unlike the premise of the movie Inception.

I'm not sure I agree with the whole "inherit a parent's soul" idea though. The child might could have its own soul, rather than inheriting it, as that doesn't seem so theologically sound.

Also, how do people now dream? Are humans dreamless now?

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:43 am 
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*is so glad little brother likes it* ^_^ What do you mean, exactly, about the covenant? Big sister is feeling dense tonight. :roll: My thought is that the world already had sin (because it was an extension of this world, built for people in this world, who are all sinful). The only thing it had that humanity didn't was immortality (and, consequently, no distinct sense of time).

I didn't mean "inherit" literally, BushMaid--just that she had a soul because her father had one (same rule of life that explains why all of Adam and Eve's descendants have souls).

Humans are not dreamless... I'm considering saying that other spheres were kept intact for the purpose. At any rate my MC comes to Erde through a coma still.

*will await the results of Jonathan's pondering* :book:

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:05 am 
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Aubrey Hansen wrote:
*is so glad little brother likes it* ^_^ What do you mean, exactly, about the covenant? Big sister is feeling dense tonight. :roll: My thought is that the world already had sin (because it was an extension of this world, built for people in this world, who are all sinful). The only thing it had that humanity didn't was immortality (and, consequently, no distinct sense of time).

^_^
I'm not good at being clear, anyway. :P What I mean is...it sounded weird to me to have God laying down another curse. I think you should either have another covenant tailored to this world, as in another case of God reaching down to commune with His children, and show them how to live to be near to Him, and then lay down another curse when that is broken, or just not have another curse for this world, and merely show the effects of the curse that affects all creation taking effect in that world too.
Does that make any sense? :P Maybe I'm just nitpicking. xD


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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 pm 
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So then are they also saved by belief in Christ? Or are they saved by a different way?

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Ahh, that makes sense, thank you, little brother. :D I see what you mean; however, since the "curse" is just one of mortality (sin has already entered this world) I don't know that that's necessary--but certainly a possibility.

Right now I am thinking they are still saved through belief in Christ, Aratrea, since they are all descended from this-world humans. Some of them perhaps even originally knew Christ, as dreamers, even if they did not know they were in a dream, still carried their same language, religion, etc. So my thought is that these people have simply forgotten and need to be reminded of whence they came. But I'm not settled on that yet.

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:15 am 
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Honestly? My first impression when I originally read your story was that of a fairytale; a legend. it's a story that makes more sense when it makes less sense. That explaining it is complex; takes away. You have a terminally ill teenager wandering into a world.... it doesn't have to have rules to exist. It doesn't have to make sense or even be properly real. When the kid wakes back up he'll wander around wondering if it was just a dream while knowing that it was more than that. I think trying to make it more real actually makes it less real.

That's my opinion, at any rate. And I suspect that, because of the extensive world building you've already done, you don't see it the same way. And I did read, after all, an unfinished story.

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:31 am 
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Aubrey Hansen wrote:
I didn't mean "inherit" literally, BushMaid--just that she had a soul because her father had one (same rule of life that explains why all of Adam and Eve's descendants have souls).

Humans are not dreamless... I'm considering saying that other spheres were kept intact for the purpose. At any rate my MC comes to Erde through a coma still.

Ahhh I see. Sorry, I misunderstood. :P

Constable Jaynin Mimetes wrote:
Honestly? My first impression when I originally read your story was that of a fairytale; a legend. it's a story that makes more sense when it makes less sense. That explaining it is complex; takes away. You have a terminally ill teenager wandering into a world.... it doesn't have to have rules to exist. It doesn't have to make sense or even be properly real. When the kid wakes back up he'll wander around wondering if it was just a dream while knowing that it was more than that. I think trying to make it more real actually makes it less real.

That's my opinion, at any rate. And I suspect that, because of the extensive world building you've already done, you don't see it the same way. And I did read, after all, an unfinished story.

I'm actually inclined to agree with Katie. I love the whimsicalness of this land that has no history; no creation. It just is and always has been; like earth to a certain extent. Without a history and reason behind it, it holds a lot more mystery and fantasy-ness to it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:43 pm 
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*nods* I get what you both are saying, and at one point, I would have agreed. Originally I wanted Erde to "just exist" for the purposes of one story. However, I am enjoying my world-building immensely (more than the story that I currently have written for the world, in fact...) and want to do more with the world itself. That, combined with questions about "How does religion work in this world?", have led me to settle on firmer origins. Whether or not I'll stick with this idea remains to be seen, but I do like that it grounds Erde in reality (that is, connects it to the real world) while still having it be very free and imaginative. It's still a dreamworld with no rhyme or reason to the way it is built (or to the kinds of plants and creatures that inhabit it).

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:08 am 
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Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Ahh, that makes sense, thank you, little brother. :D I see what you mean; however, since the "curse" is just one of mortality (sin has already entered this world) I don't know that that's necessary--but certainly a possibility.

Well, I guess what I mean is...it might make more sense for the cursed humans to mar the world on their own--I think another curse is unnecessary. But I realize I may be off on my own...whatever. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Ahh, I see what you mean. But unfortunately no matter how much marring people do, they can't make something mortal that was immortal, so that's my justification for that. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Ahh, I see what you mean. But unfortunately no matter how much marring people do, they can't make something mortal that was immortal, so that's my justification for that. :D

Okay. :D I thought the dream people could inherit it from the human part of them, I must have misunderstood. (Something that hardly ever happens :roll: ;) )
So this would be like the proclamation God...er...proclaimed...in Genesis about lifespan, right?


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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Good comparison! I hadn't thought of that, but yes, exactly. He's just putting a limit on their lifespan (and the lifespan of the earth).

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:07 pm 
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:shock:
*double checks thread title*

For a moment there, I thought I ended up in DSQ, but then it got to the solar system and theology part and I knew I was safe.

Dreams are fun concepts to work with, and tying it in to our world the way you makes it more concrete and realistic-sounding.

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:19 pm 
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o.O I have no idea what DSQ means, but I'm going to assume that you like it, Varon? :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:18 pm 
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*facepalm* My bad.
DSQ= Dream of a Shrouded Quest, which is the novel I'm working on when not distracted by space rangers and science-fantasy nomads. So yes, I do like it. Most of the time. (Oh, and until I had the title, it was Secret Project 001)


It is also set in a dream-world and involves getting there in a coma.

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Ahh! Sweet. :D Thanks. ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: The Origin of Erde--NEW idea!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:47 am 
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Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Good comparison! I hadn't thought of that, but yes, exactly. He's just putting a limit on their lifespan (and the lifespan of the earth).

Ah, okay. That makes sense then. ^_^


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